I love how many times people are repeating "but this forces hiseccers to interact!" as if it wasn't the entire point in the first place.

heaven forbid CCP slightly trims the massive amount of cotton wool wrapped around every hisec player and allows groups to compete over assets in hisec

heaven forbid in this massively multiplayer game one might get advantages from being able to work with other people

I don't think allowing the starvation of highsec PI (unless we all kneel before Zod, Arryth, the Mittani, Mangala or whomever wins the Poco grab) is a good idea.

Nullsec gets handed siphons to steal moongoo and nullsec says nothing as that is funny what will promote some fun at the expense of our income.


Highsec gets handed POCOS and flips out because they want to play farmville in peace without those nasty big alliances clubbing them over the head.

The rabbit hole is much deeper than people seem to realize in this thread. We have three plans. Only one of which anyone is focusing on at this point. You should be worried far more about your fellow highsecer than us. While we are interested, this is fairly small income to us outside certain select cases. Worry more about your neighbors.

Might I suggest that you not play an MMO then? Here, let me suggest some other games.

maybe you can compete with the big alliances by starting a big alliance of your own

Oh god, CCP rooting out the massively online singleplayers is chubtastic.

Like vermin shrieking in uncomprehending fear as you shine a light on their putrid hovels made of excrement and waste.

Too bad this happens so infrequently.

oh you must be confused, a sandbox means that powerful groups can have influence because it's exactly that: a sandbox, and not an instanced game

perhaps there are instanced games more suited to your needs

Superb changes, you little anti-social guys need to pick a side and then buy a microphone. Remember that CCP makes the sandbox and the dimensions and rules of the sandbox are down to their designs. There has been YEARS of notice that high sec changes were coming and that the sandbox would be adjusted to make co-operative play work better than lone wolfing. Eve played as a socially co-operative experience was always the stated aim of the developers, the game is much better played that way in any case. This is the future and there's no going back now, more to follow I'm sure, explosions incoming.

somebody gets why we literally have no ability to monopolize hisec pocos

if you don't like the guys running the poco on a planet, you can kill the poco or set up on another planet

[quote=Elana Maggal][quote=Andski][quote=Gizznitt Malikite]
there are other planets out there and in eve destroying the POCO and setting up your own is the economic competition. Your problem is not a problem and your solution is not a solution cause when a corp would set up both POCO's on a planet you'd ask for a third and then a fourth etc all in the name of competition while it's just laziness.

I suppose you could say there is no competition for moongoo either, since you can only put one POS at a moon? On a very, very local scale you are correct, but not in the larger scheme of things.

There are 1090 High sec systems and 817 Low sec represented in the "Empire Regions" chart on dotlan:
Regional Planet Distribution Charts

If we assume 50% of the empire planets are in highsec, then in any empire region you will have 100's of planets you can use in any region.
FYI, from the chart, there are 16285 planets in empire space, and we can safely estimate 8000 of those are in highsec. At 100m per poco, it would take 800 billion isk to claim them all, and it would be a logistical nightmare protect them.

The main question is, who will pay 500 million ISK to attack the GSF POCOs? Truth be told, many groups will gladly pay that for the large number of targets they get presented with. Add to that the desire to get in "fleet fights" with GSF in a "you can't hotdrop here" situation, and it is quite possible GSF will simply make themselves big targets by zealously claiming highsec POCOs.

So whats stopping goonswarm or any other large null sec alliance taking over EVERY poco in high sec in no time? Because you know damn well that this is going to happen. Yet again another implementation for the nullsec alliances to make massive passive income! Arrgghhh

Not only does it cost billions to even war dec them, they can bring 100s of subcaps to defend them. Well done CCP well done.




Who thought of this absolute stupid idea?

[quote=Elana Maggal
First off, POCO's in nullsec won't have the 10% NPC tax rate (5% with skills). This is a HUGE deal, as Big Alliances have logistics chains setup to really minimize the efforts required to move PI goods back and forth.

Highsec POCO's will also see a general reduction in cost of usage. Sure, some entities may block Plasma planets to "block usage", but even if goons setup every POCO at 5% tax rates, and your an unskilled new player, 15% (5 to goons, 10 to NPC) is still cheaper than 17%.

This change makes highsec PI more viable.
This change adds highsec targets to spark wars over.
This adds a new income stream for entrepreneurial groups.
This adds a new method to conduct economic manipulation of markets (instead of Ice interdiction, we get Enriched Uranium Interdictions).

How can you possibly think this is bad for the game?

Fixed that for you

It costs 500m to wardec a large alliance. Big isk to a new player, not unmanageable to most player groups, and chump change to EvE's industrious base.

Do they outnumber you? Probably, but so what. Agony is a small group compared to 90% of Nullsec Alliances, and we've taken POCO's and moon-goo POSes from entities many times our size. You have to remember that a bigger group of people has many potential targets, and they can't maintain focus on every one of them. You may not succeed the first attack, but be determined and vigilant and you can reclaim a tower as you like. Furthermore, since they can't use cyno-travel to bridge directly to the system, nullsec allliances will provide amazing opportunities for guerrilla warfare as they move to/and from a POCO defense.

Finally, the Goons may have some big bad wolf label, but their playerbase dies just as readily and easily as that miner in an ice belt. As a small guy taking on a goliath, aim for small victories (kill scouts and stragglers, make their life hell, undermine or profit from their actions).

this implies that we think you deserve freedom which as a guy who does eve stuff all the time is fucking surreal and makes me laugh on my ass

1.) I own many POCO's myself, both with Agony and in industrial alt corps. I'm very aware of what I can and cannot do with them.

2.) If you don't trust the goons (which we all understand), then find a non-goon POCO. Find an entity you do trust. And if you only trust NPCs, then you'll never get very far in this game.

3.) The activities of players in highsec effect those in lowsec and nullsec, and vice versa. These aren't independent zones with independent economies. The EvE Verse is all tied together, and while your activities in highsec are generally "safer", it is not intended to be a zone free from the influence of other players, including aggressive combat. Furthermore, the rules of engagement in highsec greatly change the dynamics of how battles are fought there. This means tactics change, playstyles change, and creates unique areas of game play.

4.) Highsec has been under extreme economic manipulation for a very, very long time (look at moongoo, ice interdictions, and many, many more). From wealthy highsec industrialists to major nullsec alliances to that new player experimenting with module prices in your local trade hub, it has been going on since the game started. This provides a new method of resource manipulation, but that isn't some bad thing, nor is it a simple thing to implement either. You live with it right now, and it hasn't destroyed the economy or gimped your playstyle. This may make the PI market a bit more volatile, but volatile markets leave lots of room for players to make lots of isk. And if you are simply a resource harvester that wants to accrue some extra isk by PI'ing, you don't lose anything as you still gain PI resources.

Why do you care if every plasma planet in highsec is controlled by a major alliance. Unless those major alliances produce more enriched uranium or whatever else your producing on that plasma planet than all of EvE consumes, the market will balance out reflect the increased costs of acquiring such products. Furthermore, if costs rise enough, you can harvest the resources from two non-plasma planets and combine them to produce anything you could on a plasma planet.

The sky isn't falling, the market generally passes taxes on to the consumer, and while the goons can manipulate markets, the average player simply pays $4 / gallon of gas this month instead of $3.50.

1. News flash.... Highsec is already a warzone. This doesn't change the core game play of highsec, as it is still a "safe industrial base" that players can depend on. Did the increase yield of nullsec ores stopped highsec mining? Did goon's ice interdiction really make it so you can't operate a research POS? Did the increased MFG slots in nullsec make it so you can't manufacture items? Frankly, there are enough profit-minded risk-accepting players in EvE that PI products will continue to be produced even if goons owned every Highsec Planet. Your disillusion if you believe otherwise!

2. The average-joe alliance doesn't need to compete with large alliances. Most people won't be majorly affected by this, and those few that are will either find new avenues in eve to play, or if they are smart, adapt to the new situation and pass the "taxes" on to the consumers.

They gotta up their spying game then. Where else but EVE can you communicate with hundreds of other players in hostile nations everyday and blend your signal into the noise?

Wow, 11 pages discussing how the evil GOON is coming for our virtuous women and highsec planets.

This despite the fact that taking and holding ten thousand planets over a span of 1155 systems is utterly infeasible, especially considering you can't just bridge a fleet in. People all over the map would be nipping at their heels and it's impossible to defend everywhere. In highsec, local groups have a strong advantage over distant landlords.

High wardec price? Pool resources with your neighbours. In EVE, organizing has always brought perks, this is no different.

Melissophobia is a terrible thing.

why wouldn't they be, why should they remain in the hands of the weak and worthless

the weak and worthless get the scraps not the choice cuts of meat

[quote=Elana Maggal]

And I understand why you are complaining. You obviously have some profitable PI scheme setup in a trade hub and you don't want your cash cow inconvenienced by this new mechanic. Plan to adapt already! Hell, use red frog to move the goods to an isolated area and run your PI there. Your being pretty insane tbh, but now you know how all those tech-moon holders felt when moongoo was changed!

people would still be able to do PI, why would we want to lock anyone out of using our pocos in highsec? more people to collect taxes from

do keep raging in this thread with all caps though, it's hilarious

Elana have you ever shot at another player?

There are no Goonswarm POCOs in hisec and the wretches are already wailing. Goddamn.

This isn't really true. Sure the large alliance could roll through highsec killing reinforcing player owned customs offices, but the advantages you ascribe to the wardec scenario for the little guy are many times magnified if its a suspect flag situation. You can still call in allies, setup defence fleets, pretty traps etc because the large alliance fleet hitting the office will be suspect. And you'd be able to do it with some true surprise because lack of wardecs = unexpected escalations. And of course the cost for wardec fee is many times more significant for the little guys than the large alliance. Cost to grief a small outfit out of its POCO? = peanuts. Cost to take it back + hire mercs + fund friend's wardecs (billions a week). No way can that be said to protect any small power.

So in essence no, it doesn't protect the little guys, it actively hinders them. (Which admittedly may be the point of the devblog and feature.)

[quote=Elana Maggal]

1) Actually the game needs to get away from it's safe industrial base. It's turned the game into spreadsheets online and industrial tasks in-game is little more than applied accountancy.

[quote=Elana Maggal]

Despite what's being said in this topic, it's exteremely unlikely that all high-sec is going to be owned by Goons. It's also unlikely that all high-sec is even going to be owned by the larger entities.

So if you want to continue to do PI, it's just a matter of finding some planets where the POCO has a reasonable owner.

Even with the POCOs, there's no insistance that you get involved with PvP. You can pay RvB to clear a POCO so you can claim it for your corp. Then you can tax it!

what level of player interaction do you find acceptable in your vision of my little pony online the massively multiplayer singleplayer game

Never lived in null-sec, never been part of a null-sec alliance. I've visited null-sec, for sure, but as things stand at the moment I wouldn't want to live there.

Sorry for wanting a game that actually challenges me, and rewards me for using my brains.

If you want something that's simply "press button get reward" then I suggest that Eve Online isn't the game for you.